Christians believe in works, not grace.
Grace. The favorite topic of the saved. The funny thing is, the typical born again position of grace actually includes works. That demonstrates some pretty poor introspection on the part of reborns everywhere. Pastor Raul this evening condemned the Catholic church today, for many things, noteably for "works." Granted, the particular works Raul believes in and the Catholic Church believes in diverge significantly. But, nonetheless, works are works, they are um, filthy rags.
There are only two positions I can think of which can successfully negotiate the problem of works.
1. Those who don't believe Paul's question, "Shall we sin that Grace may abound?" was rhetorical and will allow for the answer of, "sure."
2. Very generally, Calvinism. Since grace is predetermined by election, no effort is required on the part of the saved. Niether is their any possibility of backsliding, since all works after salvation are ensured by predestination to be good enough to satisfy other Calvinists. Technically, this all collapses once it's understood that most Calvinists (to my knowledge) are compatibilists. But that's a tangent discussion*.
Grace doesn't exist for christians, specifically because of the problem of backsliding. Christians usually can't tolerate the thought that Jim gets saved on wednsday, and is off fornicating on thursday, killing on friday, and taking the Lord's name in vain on Saturday, all in time to contemplate his mansions above on Sunday. So the question arises, was Jim really saved on wednsday? Calvinists will say no, and the other non-existent group I mentioned above will say "sure." But if a reborn says no, he wasn't saved, then logically, the salvation of every other Christian is also in question. How do you know that Jane, after 15 years of being saved and clean Christian living won't betray it all and go back to drugs and prostitution? And if the answer is yes, but salvation can be lost, the position I belive Calvery Chapel holds, then quite obviously, works are just as important as "faith."
What pastor Raul doesn't understand, is that it doesn't matter if you are trying to be good, hoping to one day be good enough to be saved, or if you are trying to be good, hoping that you don't loose your salvation. Pastor Raul, and most other reborns, believe in works as much as anyone else.
*Compatibilism holds that free will and determinism are "compatible." This view held widly by atheists too actually. John Edwards taught that mankind can be impugned for their sin even though God created man evil. If this is true, than man surely can be praised for his righteousness, even if his nature to do so is determined by God. And if it is the case, that horrendously evil deeds are evidence of non-salvation, then the state of not doing those deeds are part of the salvation package, a part attributable entirely to the agent.
There are only two positions I can think of which can successfully negotiate the problem of works.
1. Those who don't believe Paul's question, "Shall we sin that Grace may abound?" was rhetorical and will allow for the answer of, "sure."
2. Very generally, Calvinism. Since grace is predetermined by election, no effort is required on the part of the saved. Niether is their any possibility of backsliding, since all works after salvation are ensured by predestination to be good enough to satisfy other Calvinists. Technically, this all collapses once it's understood that most Calvinists (to my knowledge) are compatibilists. But that's a tangent discussion*.
Grace doesn't exist for christians, specifically because of the problem of backsliding. Christians usually can't tolerate the thought that Jim gets saved on wednsday, and is off fornicating on thursday, killing on friday, and taking the Lord's name in vain on Saturday, all in time to contemplate his mansions above on Sunday. So the question arises, was Jim really saved on wednsday? Calvinists will say no, and the other non-existent group I mentioned above will say "sure." But if a reborn says no, he wasn't saved, then logically, the salvation of every other Christian is also in question. How do you know that Jane, after 15 years of being saved and clean Christian living won't betray it all and go back to drugs and prostitution? And if the answer is yes, but salvation can be lost, the position I belive Calvery Chapel holds, then quite obviously, works are just as important as "faith."
What pastor Raul doesn't understand, is that it doesn't matter if you are trying to be good, hoping to one day be good enough to be saved, or if you are trying to be good, hoping that you don't loose your salvation. Pastor Raul, and most other reborns, believe in works as much as anyone else.
*Compatibilism holds that free will and determinism are "compatible." This view held widly by atheists too actually. John Edwards taught that mankind can be impugned for their sin even though God created man evil. If this is true, than man surely can be praised for his righteousness, even if his nature to do so is determined by God. And if it is the case, that horrendously evil deeds are evidence of non-salvation, then the state of not doing those deeds are part of the salvation package, a part attributable entirely to the agent.
posted by Ashmunella Harrisi at 5:49 PM
1 Comments:
"Since grace is predetermined by election, no effort is required on the part of the saved."This is unfortunately only caricature. I'd recommend interacting with some more Calvinistic literature. (See also Lordship salvation.)
“In efficacious grace we are not merely passive, nor yet does God do some, and we do the rest. But God does all, and we do all. God produces all, and we act all. For that is what produces, viz., our own acts. God is the only proper author and fountain; we only are the proper actors. We are, in different respects, wholly passive, and wholly active.
“In the Scriptures the same things are represented as from God and from us. God is said to convert, and men are said to convert and turn. God makes a new heart, and we are commanded to circumcise our own hearts; not merely because we must use the means in order to the effect, but the effect itself is our act and our duty. These things are agreeable to that text, ‘God worketh in you both to will and to do.’ (Philippians 2:13)…
“There is a necessary connection between divine grace and human act, but it is a question of moral, not natural, necessity. Rather than being an external force which moves man’s faith as a lifeless object, grace is the divine gift which operates within the living, willing human subject.” —Jonathan Edwards, Works of President Edwards, Volume 2 (reprint of the Worcester Edition), 580. Quoted in Reformation and Revival Magazine, Spring 2003, p. 24
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